BANNER PHOTO BY NICHOLAS SCAPILLATI | ABOVE PHOTO BY FRITZ MUELLER | PHOTOS BELOW BY NICHOLAS SCAPILLATI, PHOTO OF AURORA BOREALIS BY UNSPLASH IMAGES

TRANSCRIPT: EPISODE 2

LEGACY

<<<sound of rain falling>>>

(PHIL TIMPANY, GUEST)

 I felt that… that if I was a believer... that if I died, I was definitely gonna go to hell for what I did. 

<<<steady rain>>>

I became a guide outfitter and our primary species was grizzly bears. In those days there were no quotas on grizzly bears.

Over a number of years, I was responsible for guiding people, mostly non-residents to Canada. 

And they would ...come with me to kill a grizzly bear. ..

One of the things that I couldn’t understand at the time - at that time in my life - and I would ask these hunters, I asked almost every one of them that I guided or that I met, like: 

Why did they want to kill a grizzly bear? 

Why was it that important to come all the way to a place like where we were and end the life of….what I thought just from skinning them and being around them the way I was that -- 

...I thought they were absolutely the most perfect specimens I'd ever seen in my life...

...like every hair was in place….

...every muscle was….

they had to be a perfect specimen to survive in their habitats. 

I just couldn’t understand why these people found a need to kill these animals. 

And I would ask them, because I was very curious about it.

I never ever got an answer from anybody. 

I got a lot of excuses why they would kill a grizzly bear, but I never ever got a reasonable answer.

I could tell that all of them pretty much felt very uncomfortable when they tried hard to be honest about it, they would kind of go deep inside their own psyche.  It made them feel uncomfortable so they could never provide me with an answer.

<<<music: “the country where I came from” by Mike Edel>>

(NICHOLAS SCAPILLATI, HOST, GRIZZCAST)

This is a story about the legacy we want to leave behind. 

What will we reflect on when we look back, when we teach our children and our children’s children about our Earth - and the sentient beings that walk  alongside us. 

Join me as I journey deep into the Yukon interior. Travelling from Vancouver to Dawson City, I will travel by helicopter two hours north across alpine tundra - a vast rolling landscape unfragmented by roads. 

At times it feels like nowhere land void of life while simultaneously feeling like an ethereal realm brimming with mystery and ancient history. 

Together, we explore how the fates of humans, grizzly bears, and the natural world are all connected. 

Far away in distance and far away in time, we are venturing to one of the high peaks in the Yukon’s Ogilvie Mountains, Bear Cave Mountain, joined by our guide Phil Timpany.

This is GrizzCast by the Grizzly Bear Foundation

<<intro charm>>

As we continue to share these stories, please consider supporting GrizzCast with a financial gift by visiting our donation page today–   to help safeguard the lands grizzly bears roam, the food they eat, and the wild we share. 

<<<sound of a helicopter>>

(PHIL)

We are, like you say, in a very remote area

(NICHOLAS)  

We're pretty remote here 

(PHIL)

Very. We're just two kilo-meters south of the Arctic Circle

(NICHOLAS)  

But also we are a two hour helicopter ride from Dawson City and another hour from Old Crow.. We're very remote here. The people you bring here - and you -will probably be some of the only people these bears ever see.

(PHIL)

Yes, I am pretty sure that’s the case, it is pretty remote.

(NICHOLAS)    

That's part of the charm of this place as well. I got that sense after being here a couple of days about how remote we climbed to the top of the mountain here and got a good look at the landscape and the river and, and you realize this is true wilderness. 

This is the Canadian North. 

That’s pretty special.

(PHIL)

Yes, it really is.

(NICHOLAS)  

It’s October and a dark fog curls off the precipitous peaks, cloaking me in a gentle feeling of tranquility. 

As the season’s swirl around us, shifting from autumn to winter, Phil and I sit quietly by the riverside in Yukon's Ni'iinlii Njik (Fishing Branch) Territorial Park in the traditional territory of the Vuntut Gwitchin First Nation. 

Cooperatively managed by the Yukon and Vuntut Gwitchin governments, the Fishing Branch is one of the few areas worldwide that provide a protective habitat for grizzly bears and spawning salmon. 

Sitting here next to Phil, he is at times quiet and calm and in other moments more restive - mirroring the frigid air and spawning chum salmon. 

As the sun breaks through the heavy mist, a sense of awe shivers down my spine.  

I am here to watch the persistence of life and death. 

I am here to sit at the base of ancient caves, mountains and hills. 

I am here to leave no trace. 

I am here to be reminded that I am part of a greater whole.

I am here to listen. 

<<<music>>

(NICHOLAS)  

It's nice to be here with Phil Timpany on the banks of Fishing Branch River in the Yukon. Why don't you say hello Phil and just kind of describe where we are.

(PHIL)

We are on the Fishing Branch River about two kilometers south of the Arctic Circle. And the Fishing Branch River is a tributary of the Porcupine River, about 40 kilometers of river, that flows out of the Ogilvie karst into the Porcupine River which in turn empties into the Yukon River in Alaska.

(NICHOLAS)  

…and just across the way here is Bear Cave Mountain.

(PHIL)

Right across the river is Bear Cave Mountain, about a few hundred meters.

Bear Cave Mountain is a very important mountain to the Vuntut Gwitchin people of Old Crow. And it's a very spiritual place and a very important place that was sacred to them and still is. And it's an area known as Ni’iinlii’njik, which in Gwitchin is, “where the salmon spawn”.

(NICHOLAS)  

- which we just heard flapping around in the background - 

(PHIL)

Yeah, we're sitting here watching about 100 chum salmon spawning. They've just arrived the last few weeks and so this is definitely where the fish spawn. 

The Mountain itself is to the Gwitchin people is referred to as Ch’ii Ch’a’an, which means “mountain with hole in rock”. 

During the time I worked here for the government, we identified 22 caves that were used by bears on the mountain. 

(NICHOLAS)  

Unlike the rest of North America, this northwestern corner of Canada was one of the few places in the world that remained ice-free during the last Ice Age. 

Known as “Beringia” this area acted as a refuge for plant and animal life, as well as the first humans to arrive on the continent.

From time immemorial, First Nations have cared for this land once home to woolly mammoths, the giant short-faced bear, saber-toothed cats, and more. 

We are here at the base of Bear Cave Mountain. Famous for these prehistoric remnants, that have been carved into the limestone, formed and developed over millennia by rainfall and snowmelt. 

The caves have been preserved for present-day grizzly bears to den, offering a warm and safe place for a long hibernation.

This is the land of beasts.

(PHIL)

There's caves in the surrounding area on each side of the valley going upstream - and a few actually downstream from us here - but mostly up-stream. Of course to the north, there's another mountain of the same karst geology that we've  discovered some denning caves in that area to probably from forebears from this area also. The Gwitchin people have always known about the bears that lived here. 

 (NICHOLAS)  

And this place is particularly interesting because it wasn't glaciated during the last glaciation.

(PHIL)

Yes, this is a very interesting area that way. It's part of the Beringia - which is known to be in this area south to the Dawson City area, and then well into Alaska - where the area was glaciated at all it was more of a grassland at the time. And there were some really interesting critters roaming in this area like woolly mammoths and saber toothed tigers and short-faced bears and horses, wild horses and lots of caribou, which still roam the area today, a certain amount. So it's a very important area historically, as well as currently, of course, because it has the cultural significance to the language and people and of course, it's a major salmon contributor to the Yukon River system as a whole.

(NICHOLAS)  

The area consists of both public and First Nations Settlement lands - acclaimed for being a first in Canada, if not North America. 

While the protection of wildlife, particularly grizzly bears and salmon, is the priority of the Fishing Branch Protected Area, the plan also recognizes another kind of industry that relies on the presence of grizzly bears: commercial bear viewing.

In 2005, in partnership with the Vuntut Gwitchin First Nation, Phil started the first and only bear-viewing operation in the Yukon. 

So you run a bear viewing operation here within this reserve. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about how you got started in this unique place in the world? 

(PHIL)

It's an interesting story, I suppose. The first year I came in here I did a contract for Fisheries and Oceans Canada to work with some of the salmon here. And I'd put one year in doing that and I trained some Vuntut Gwitchin on the project, in numerating salmon into the system downstream from here. And because I,  I did at that time have some experience with grizzly bears and salmon, the Yukon government hired me in 1992 to look at the ecological inventory in this area in order to assess it of importance because the Yukon Government had begun a protected area strategy that they wanted to identify a certain number of places in the Yukon that might deserve protection.

(NICHOLAS)  

Phil has worked in and walked these lands for over 30 years, known today as the “bear whisperer of North Yukon”. He is a bear-viewing guide, filmmaker, and bear researcher and specialist.

National Geographic photographer Cristina Mittermeier once described Phil as “a Jane Goodall of the bears; a man with an intuitive understanding of the animals.”

(NICHOLAS)  

What's your most treasured possession?

(PHIL)

My knowledge of grizzly bears.

(NICHOLAS)  

What's the worst thing about your job?

(PHIL)

Having to realize that the grizzly bear season is over. Seriously, it’s the worst.

(NICHOLAS)  

As a guide, Phil is able to connect with grizzlies intimately. 30 - 50 bears come here every year, adding up to one of the highest concentrations of grizzly bears in North America for this northern latitude. 

…one of the real things that I've learned through bear viewing - and every operation is different - what we hear is that the guides are learning how to bring us into bear country, be around bears  - be very close to bears - and we're getting a new understanding of what that means. The fear kind of goes away when you're on a bear viewing trip.

(PHIL)

Yes, exactly. And that's what we experience here. We quiz guests periodically and ask them about their experience and one of the most common words that we hear from our guests is that the experience they have with bears with us is very calming. That's one word that we hear a lot more than any other word to describe their experience.

(NICHOLAS)  

Which is funny for people to hear...because, in our culture, it's the “big grizzly bear”. And in Hollywood, it's always like “Leonardo DiCaprio getting his arm chewed off”…

But at the same time, people love these animals and they're interested. And then when we spend time with them, like you do and other guides, we start to realize that actually, we can be around these animals quite closely….

That’s interesting because your model that they're doing is quite intimate compared to other operations or other operations or some are tracking them. But here, at Bear Cave Mountain, the bears just kind of walk right into camp at times and really close to us. I think that's something unique for this application.

(PHIL)

Yeah, we'd like to, we like to create a scenario where we're actually living with the bears and in truth, coexisting with them in every part of the area that we use. So one of those areas, of course, like you said, is the camp. 

So we do allow bears to come into the yard in the camp, we don't deter bears from the place where we gather and for the evenings and where we sleep in the cabins. We're always viewing bears no matter where we are. And if the bears behave, they're welcome to come into the yard. 

I found it working with these individual bears that are quite tolerant; they become tolerant to people at least over time - they seem to enjoy coming into camp, rubbing on the trees, or just coming in for a visit, out of curiosity …...

<<sounds of grizzly bear viewing>>>

<<<we don't usually get interrupted by grizzly bear but she's the star of the show >>

(NICHOLAS)  

Most of the grizzlies that surround us here seem like old friends of Phil’s. 

Sophie, the mama bear and her two cubs, came into camp and like as you said, She's showing them who we are and what this place is and how to be around it and it's okay and there's rubbing trees right there. And so not only is she showing them where to fish, and you know how to den, but she's also showing them who these humans are. And yes, in their habitat.

(PHIL) 

Yeah, all the tolerant females end up doing that. They do it early in the season, when they bring their young to the river, they'll eventually get over that. But they'll introduce their young to you and bring them really close and spend almost an unusual amount of time and you're very close proximity sometime just a few meters away. And it's to condition the cubs to the fact that these aliens, they're sharing this habitat with her are okay and to be trusted. And a lot of the rationale behind that, I believe is that a lot of the females with their young do use the yard and use us sometimes interviewing sites for security from other more dominant bears that maybe are generally a bit more wary of us than they are so it's all about survival. It's a strategy of course, but it just goes to show you the intelligence of the animals and, and how very adaptive they are to different circumstances and been able to take advantage of those circumstances.

(NICHOLAS)  

It's great to spend time with them and nice to hang out with Tucker, he’s been pretty good at training! 

<< “that’s uh, Tucker the dog biting the sound mic here”>>

(NICHOLAS)  

Yukon grizzlies breed for the first time between the age of 6 - 9 and reproduce once every 3 to 4 years. 

For reproductive rates to be successful, grizzlies depend on the abundance of berries in this ecological reserve as well as, supplements of roots, grasses, sedges and horsetails - all tasty snacks for grizzly bears in the spring and summer months. 

A river of life runs through the open tundra plains. Thermal springs and porous limestone karst beneath the mountain keeps the river flowing year round.

Fishing Branch at the base of Bear Cave Mountain is exactly what a grizzly bear mother needs.

Here in the Yukon, as temperatures fall, a mystical combination of freezing winter air and clear water causes the fur of fishing grizzlies to coat in ice, transforming them into the “ice bears of the Yukon”.

….Earlier this year I was in Yellowstone and I was in the Kootenays. And all along, these are different environments for the bears. And we know that Grizzlies used to be into the Great Plains and far south as Mexico and and so everywhere, they're a bit different. They have different habitats and the grow differently, maybe different behaviours. What's unique about these bears here, bear cave mountain.

(PHIL)

Well, I can't say I've even noted one thing about bears in their behaviour other than forage related behaviours 

(NICHOLAS)  

…and what do they like to eat particular to this area that’s unique? obviously there's salmon...

(PHIL)

In this area right here, the draw of course is salmon. I think in general this area immediate to this spawning area is a pretty hungry country for bears. There is fruit in the subalpine….

(NICHOLAS)  

Yeah, we've seen crow berry….

(PHIL)

There’s kinnikinnick (bearberry) on the slope, south facing slopes, there's blueberries, low bush blueberry, and there's crowberry, a little higher up and in this sub alpine and right on tops of the mountains in the alpine in some of these riparian areas here, especially in this funding area, there's high bush cranberry, and some of the bogs and the wet areas there's low bush cranberry, also. So you got the low bush and high bush cranberry.

A lot of the bears come from a long way to come to this place. 

(NICHOLAS)  

Three types of salmon come here to spawn throughout the year, drawing bears like Sophie to the river's edge.

Each fall, one of the largest species of Pacific salmon and the main food source for grizzlies arrive - chum salmon. Thousands of chum salmon travel 2,000kms to spawn and die, developing a striking red tiger stripe pattern as they enter freshwater. That's about the distance from Vancouver to Los Angeles!

(PHIL)

The Gwitchin people have treated this area because of the fish stocks that could be seen here all winter, both salmon and non-anadromous fish that live here through the winter, they could survive. The Arctic grayling...there's round white fish..and there’s...coho salmon, coming here in the next month and a half that spawn right into December. So it was a place where if someone was in trouble and hadn't maybe intercepted the caribou herds are done very well in the fall collecting or winters supplies, they, they could actually come here and survive the winter just on fish.

(NICHOLAS)  

And for people as they can't see this, but we'll describe it to them. When you look at this creek, it's pretty amazing. I've worked in salmon streams, salmon restoration. And but this stream in particular, there's lots of oxygen just bubbling up all over the stream. And you were talking about some of this water that's basically bubbling up from the ground and oxygenating these reds where the salmon lay their eggs can be up to eight or nine years old.

(PHIL)

Yes, some hydrologist have researched in here from the University of Calgary and they discovered some of the water entering a river from the ground here has been underground for nine years. There's a lot of dissolved oxygen in it. And it's very cold water, and it's the perfect conditions for incubating salmon eggs. So the whole area here, really, the Oasis, we call it Bear Cave Mountain is really a result of high water quality.

(NICHOLAS)  

During one of the most impactful global events in history bringing to light the close link between human and animal - the COVID-19 pandemic - these grizzly bears continue to live deep in the Ogilvie Mountains, unaware of the shadow that looms over their future. 

In this traditional territory, grizzly bear hunting is banned. However, this is not the case for the rest of the Yukon. Every year in the Yukon, an average of 90 bears are shot and killed for trophy.

Though listed as vulnerable by the Yukon government and recently listed by the federal government under the Species At Risk Act, the listing does not offer any legal protection to grizzly bears. 

Furthermore, grizzly bear population estimates in the Yukon are incredibly out of date, with the last count taking place in the 1980’s. With grizzlies extirpated in much of their historical range, it has never been more important than now to ensure the long-term survival of these majestic animals.

As we journey together across the grizzly bear’s range, I invite you to join me as I ask questions about my own place in conservation and how we can all leave more room for wildlife - ultimately reframing our relationship with grizzly bears and the intrinsic value of ecosystems.

Another thing I wanted to ask you something that you and I have in common…. I grew up in a hunting family. And when I was about 20, I put down my gun and got more involved in conservation got my first job as a park ranger, and then went on this path. And the same thing happened for you used to work as a guided fitter, and then you moved into bear viewing and filming. Tell us a bit about that moment for you when it kind of shifted.

(PHIL)

Well, when I moved north, I'd had some experience with grizzly bears in the West Coast. I lived in Kitimat for three years after I got out of high school. And I did get a good introduction to grizzly bears. I didn't really know much about them, but when I moved north, I was the kind of young guy that I just wanted to life in the bush. 

(NICHOLAS)  

Well you did pretty well.. (laughs) Yeah, we're in the bush.

(PHIL)

One of the things that I got introduced to was the guide outfitting industry, along with trapping. It was a way to make a living and a livelihood and still be in the woods, where you want to be with wildlife, which I was quite passionate about. The area that I worked in was a really excellent bear habitat. I became a guide outfitter and basically, our primary species was grizzly bears and in those days there were no quotas on grizzly bears.

We killed a lot of bears. Over a number of years, I was responsible for guiding people, mostly non-residents to Canada. They were primarily US and European residents. And they would come to BC and come with me to kill a grizzly bear. So I was involved in quite a bit of the killing and it never really sat right with me...I got into the woods and I was happy in the woods, but I, I think I just had a more of an underlying respect for grizzly bears than what I was actually doing. 

I realized too, that I didn't really learn much about the bears. I learned where they were, and I learned some of their behaviours. But all you do is basically find one and get within a couple of hundred meters of it and kill it. To tell you the truth and something about it all didn't sit well, I didn't feel good about myself.

I owe them a debt. I was responsible for a lot of grizzly bear deaths. I feel that I owe them. I'm really trying hard to pay that debt back and also in a respect to the animal being so intelligent and so able to understand what coexistence is with me.

(NICHOLAS)  

In sharing how people found their role in grizzly bear conservation - the challenges and the rewards along the way - we hope to inspire people from all walks of life to put their skills, time and money toward conservation and join the movement. 

From Yukon and beyond, ecosystems, fish and wildlife health around the world are being threatened by impacts related to climate change, conflicts with humans, industrial development and habitat destruction.

….So you’re telling stories, not just about these amazing places that people come and visit and the many animals that are living here - the  grizzly bear, the salmon, the wolves and the caribou - but you're also telling the story about how people coexist and the challenges we face.

(PHIL)

Yeah, it's more based around my own experiences with bears over the years and, and how I've learned to coexist with the animals. And I've learned myself over the years, that bears are relatively easy to coexist with, in the sense where you share a land base together without conflict. And the story basically is, is how you achieve that. And what it takes to be able to tolerate barriers and have bears tolerate you and a rather peaceful environment without conflict. And the rationale for that is that I've had to work in areas where there are a lot of barriers and I'm working in close proximity to them. And I just found it takes a lot more energy and time to, to deal with bears in a more of conflict way than it does to do it in a more peaceful way and understanding way.

(PHIL)

Part of the message that we're working on right now is to show that coexistence with bears is such that you learn that the risks are almost non existent when you have a bear that trusts you and brings it young to you and even sometimes leaves them with you and goes off on their own, the risk factors just decrease dramatically. 

(NICHOLAS)  

A hunter turned conservationist, Phil has redefined his relationship with grizzly bears. 

In honour of their forgiveness, he has dedicated his life to defending grizzlies and is transforming the way people view and interact with these ancient beings.

(PHIL)

During the  process of getting used to these bears and having a number of bears every day, working very close to me, and because of very close proximities as to where we were working, and I got to realize that these animals first were very, very intelligent. And I started to also understand that their brains were just loaded with knowledge of the ecology - a lot of which I could not even comprehend. But they have a vast knowledge stored up, especially the adults, and they were constantly passing information on to their offspring when we had family units come into this place.

I just gained such a huge respect for these animals. 

I think my passing into being an ambassador for a conservationist of grizzly bears has come from that experience. 

(NICHOLAS)  

That's a real personal story you shared with us. Thank you very much. 

(PHIL)

You're very welcome. 

(NICHOLAS)  

Thank you for listening to Episode 2, “Legacy”. You can find our donation page and behind the scenes photos and videos of the ice bears of the Yukon on our website at grizzcast.grizzlybearfoundation.com. 

Nice to be here, bear cave mountain in the Yukon, watching grizzly bears with you.

(PHIL)  

Nice to have you

(NICHOLAS)  

From the Grizzly Bear Foundation, this is GrizzCast.

<<chime>>

GrizzCast is hosted by the Grizzly Bear Foundation - a charitable organization solely dedicated to the welfare of the grizzly bear. 

I’m Nicholas Scapillati, the Executive Producer and your host.

This episode was written and edited by our Producer, Lindsay Marie Stewart. 

Our Story Producer is Leia Hutchings. 

Interviews were recorded on location in Bear Cave Mountain by Kas Shield.

ALO composed our theme music.

This episode features the song "The Country Where I Came From" by singer-songwriter Mike Edel.

Original solo acoustic guitar music is by Jon den Boer.

GrizzCast’s original album art is by Marie Wyatt,  with graphic design by Lindsay Marie Stewart. 

Share and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify… or wherever you find your podcasts.

This episode was sponsored by the CBVA. Learn more here.