TRANSCRIPT: EPISODE 3

Mali’s Story

<<music begins>>

(NICHOLAS SCAPILLATI, HOST, GRIZZCAST) 

The Great Bear Rainforest. Sacred wisdom sits here, It’s a place of magic and mystery, where ancient stories blanket great valleys. Here, tides dance with the moon and the sun, sweeping along the central and northern coast of British Columbia

These are the ancestral lands and the current home of more than 20 First Nations who have lived here for millennia.

Joined by bear-viewing guide and Hereditary Chief Mike Willie of the Kwikwasutinuxw/Haxwa’mis First Nation, we are here to bear witness to his people’s connection with the land and animals in this region

(MIKE WILLIE, GUEST, DESTINATION BC VIDEO CLIP) 

“Greetings, I am Ol Siwid

I come from the Four Tribes of Kingcome.”

(NICHOLAS)

Bear witness to the forest and its keepers. This is a land where animals teach humans.

<<sound of ocean waves>>

(MIKE, DESTINATION BC VIDEO CLIP)

“Indigenous culture, especially ours, is really based on your surroundings and your connection to your environment. 

The grizzly bear in our culture symbolizes power and especially authority.

I always have a saying. Rather than letting the authority be the truth, let the truth be the authority.”

(NICHOLAS)

This is GrizzCast by the Grizzly Bear Foundation

<<intro chime>>

As we continue to share these stories, please consider supporting GrizzCast with a financial gift by visiting our donation page today –   to help safeguard the lands grizzly bears roam, the food they eat, and the wild we share. 

<<grizzly bear song sung by Mike Willie plays>>

(MIKE)

Mali comes from Malilikulla, and that's the ancestor of this place where we're sitting. That's why they're called Mamalilikulla. It’s plural for the future gens of Malilikulla and Chief Sumner thought that that was a good name, you know, to have a short name that represents their ancestor.  

(NICHOLAS)

This is a true story about the life and death of a young grizzly bear that walked these lands.

Mali.

(NICHOLAS)

Do you have a name for “grizzly bear” in your language?

(MIKE)

We call them Gila. Gila. Yeah. And when we dance the grizzly bear it's called Nan and the name changes. Nan.

<<sound of ocean waves>>

(NICHOLAS)

At the start of the Great Bear Rainforest wedged between the north end of Vancouver Island and the mainland of British Columbia, lies the province's largest marine park: the Broughton Archipelago. 

It’s a maze of waterways dotted with hundreds of islands and islets. 

This is the traditional territory of the Kwikwasut'inuxw Haxwa'mis, Mamalilikulla, and ‘Na̲mg̲is Nations. 

<<sound of footsteps/walking, background chatting>>

(MIKE)

I feel connected to this place. 

This is a ʼMimkwamlis. I always think about my connections and roots that, you know, my great, great grandma, her mother came from here from Mamayoka. And so I like coming here.

(NICHOLAS)

A lot of people would recognize this on a map of British Columbia as the northern tip of Vancouver Island, the Broughton Archipelago.

(MIKE)

Yeah, that's the area, the southern part of the Great Bear Rainforest and Broughton Archipelago. Home to you know, the collective tribes they call the Kwakwa̱ka̱ʼwakw now.

If you look at Indigenous cultures from around the world, we are no different in this region where there’s at least 13,000 years of history on the coast. I’m thinking back in my own mind, well that’s older than a lot of cultures.

(NICHOLAS)

The Broughton Archipelago lies in the heart of Kwakwaka’wakw territory. 

Called “one of the nation's most dynamic ecosystems” by Canadian Geographic, sea cliffs cut with coastal fjords rise high above the Pacific ocean. 

This region is composed of rushing rivers, primeval forests and productive salmon bearing watersheds.

Welcome to the land of the grizzly bear.

(MIKE)

So many feelings at once to see a grizzly bear.

It’s almost peaceful, actually.

You’re witnessing something that is so sacred to our people in its own environment.

(NICHOLAS)

We are surrounded by ancient beings and graced by survivors. One of which is Mali. 

Earlier this year, a month into BC’s declared state of emergency at the start of the COVID-19 pandemic, a young Mali was navigating his first year outside of his mother’s den.

Mali is a juvenile or “subadult” male bear about three years old. Around Mali’s age, mother bears emancipate their cubs. After teaching their cubs all they know about the world, mother bears chase off their cubs and drive them away. Though this separation process is likely a tough and confusing process for young bears, it is time to begin a new cycle of life. 

In the Spring of 2020, Mali left his birthplace and embarked on a long journey, travelling and swimming from BC’s central mainland near Knight Inlet, to a small island just off northern Vancouver Island. He landed on Hanson Island.

(MIKE)

There’s something going on… there’s movement. Bears are coming out to the islands. And us as First Nations attribute that to the food source and one of their, or the main food source is salmon. And our population of salmon has been on the decline.

This last couple of years has been really bad. And so to us that correlates with the bear behaviour and them moving out looking for other sources of food, perhaps other rivers, right. So in our culture, you know, grizzlies, they don't hang out on islands out here. We don't have stories that link them here, they’re - it's all in the fjords right in the rivers. So it's not a normal thing for us.

(NICHOLAS)

Mali has not changed, but his world has. Here, the land and the sea are one. Whales and orcas thread through a spray of inlets, underwater shadows chasing wild salmon in the emerald-coloured waters of herring and oolichan spawning grounds

Likely exhausted from his long journey, it’s time for Mali to fill his hungry belly in his new home. He feasts on mussels, clams and wild salmon.

<<music>>

Mali is a young, curious bear. Away from his mom, he tests his own limits, learning what he likes and what he doesn’t like. In the words of CTV News journalist Scott Cunningham, “of all the places the bear visited there was only one which would almost certainly ensure his death. 

It was also the one place he kept returning to.”

<<CTV NEWS CLIP>>

“Away from its home territory on mainland BC, this grizzly named Mali swam from mainland BC and ended up on Hanson Island off of Vancouver Island

—- Watch out!! Get Going!! —

In search of food, like many bears, Mali started eating improperly kept trash

When a grizzly bear starts eating trash, their fates are usually sealed…

BC COS are often forced to destroy the animal to keep humans safe”

(MIKE)

Mali was on Hanson Island and got into someone's garbage there unfortunately and we were in another situation where it was almost like a standoff between us and the Conservation Officers. Because at first they wanted to do the relocation but when they got there, they whatever changed their mind and they went from that to a kill plan.

We had the head CO on the line and he was really trying to talk us into killing this bear just this one because it's dangerous and Chief Sumner just said absolutely not. And then so I brought up reconciliation like this, this isn't the way to do it. Right. ..We have the right to make decisions within our own traditional territories too. And we felt that this bear deserves a second chance. Right? And let's relocate to you guys. You guys got the gear to do it and you have it with you right now.

(NICHOLAS)

And I'm texting with you. And you have this group text with the guardians. And the Chief Sumner Yeah. And then I'm also texting with Mr. Heyman and his staff [laughter]. And trying to get the word from Victoria, from the villages from - you're in Victoria as well, at that time, I was in Vancouver, and we're all working to save Mali. 

(MIKE)

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. It was a huge network of texting going on. And we were getting the play by play from The Guardians and,

(NICHOLAS)

• and this is in the middle of COVID. Yeah, everyone's locked down. We're all just at home and we're worried about social distancing, if COs have got the protective gear on and yeah, trying to save Mali.

(MIKE)

And it was something I mean we you know, we got the the head CO to a point where Okay, let me, how about this, how about I do a reassessment and Chief Sumner and I say Yeah that we would love that why don't you go and reassess and then we get this text from The Guardians, “whatever you guys did it worked - they're going back to the relocation plan.” So that was that was good. And, you know, we we've chose a spot within the Mamalilikulla territory to to bring Mali and drop him off there and but we fell short unfortunately too, because we should have had a collar on Mali and been able to monitor him and you know, from there, we could have started our program right and research and collect data.

(NICHOLAS)

I think that that's where it comes into lege. Like most people think, you know, the COs are either going to kill the bear or they're going to work. And we learned from that when they did switch to working to save Mali, they did it with great care. But they also weren't prepared. They didn't have the collar ready. And and so that's again where the nations need to, you know, they want to lead here. 

(MIKE)

It takes a while for them to because they told me they're short staffed, right. There's not they don't have that human capacity to protect and conserve the whole area. Right. And they had only had one collar and that collar was where like, they couldn't get it up in time.

(NICHOLAS)

Well we saw how many bears did we see today?

(MIKE)

Yeah, we saw was it nine? Eight or nine?

(NICHOLAS)

In one day. And there's one collar. 

So Mali was - well one thing I really appreciate about this bear is as we're talking, you know, someone had photographed Mali and sent us pictures. And he was a handsome, you know, big male bear. And, you know, he was in trouble like he was into garbage, right. So he was getting into a conflict because someone hadn't properly disposed of it. And he may have been food conditioned, but we didn't know he didn't have a tag. He hadn't been captured before no one had really. So, you know, I've often tried to make that distinction between conditioned and habituated, you know, habituated is when you see a bear and you tell the story of Gatu and talking to him and he knew you that's fine to be habituated in that way. But food conditioned is what we're really worried about. But even Mali he was, you know, people were saying stories and the guardians, Harry and Jake, were telling us so Mali’s now on the beach eating mussels. So even when we talk about bears being food conditioned, they still prefer the wild foods. 

(Mike)

Yes, that’s true….That’s why they deserve a second chance….)

(NICHOLAS)

Bear witness.

Mali was labeled a “nuisance”.  A “problem bear”.

But he unknowingly had allies fighting for his life.

In honour of a grizzly bear named Gatu that was killed in Mike’s home village last November, Mike is advocating for nonlethal ways to manage human-grizzly bear encounters. Along with the Grizzly Bear Foundation and two powerful First Nations leaders, Richard Sumner, Chief Councillor of the Mamalilikulla First Nation and Rick Johnson Chief Kwikwasut'inuxw Haxwa'mis Nation, the team galvanized a plan to save Mali.

<helicopter sounds /// CTV NEWS CLIP>

“But as CTV shows us, what happens next is being called a breakthrough…

Bundled in a net, a tranquilized grizzly bear is being shuttled back to its mainland home

An unlikely ending for a story BC First Nation Leaders say is culturally significant”

<<grizzly bear song sung by Mike Willie plays>>

(MIKE)

How it started for me was when Gatu, a bear that we viewed, who was actually relocated by the Conservation Officers, that put Gatu in our territory called Hana Bond Sound and I watched Gatu right after he was relocated. Diving right into the salmon and eating the salmon he was and he has a sister Akli and they were they were doing fine they were thriving and they did well they adapted well to Killabydo who was another older sub adult in there and Numas was the old man we call him really old big male bear in there and the young ones they got they adapted really well.

(NICHOLAS)

How long was Gatu in there after he got relocated?

(MIKE) 

About 3 years.

(NICHOLAS)

A successful relocation.

(MIKE)

Yeah, it was uh, they didn't need to move right and he was part of it was there there was salmon in the river when he got there. And but he he roamed over to the community of Kingcome. And I knew what was going to happen if if the bears are in that situation for too long. Getting in people's garbage is unfortunately you know, breaking open the garbage boxes they have there you know, going on porches, so people were getting really nervous and that's understanding. So I'd call the COs to try to, hey, you know, can you go in and relocate Gatu to again, because and get him out of that, you know, dangerous situation because we, we know the inevitable will happen is that he'll have to be put down. And that's what happened. He was put down.

(NICHOLAS)

The Conservation Officers didn't come and -? 

(MIKE)

They didn't go in, no, they didn't. They didn't go in. And so that was really unfortunate and that's what I want to change. You know, I -

(NICHOLAS)

You lost a business partner, in a way.

(MIKE)

Yeah, exactly. Like -

(NICHOLAS)

Not only a friend, because you got to watch and -

(MIKE)

He’d come right over to you know, and say hi, like, 10 feet away, and just stand there and look at us. So we had a really personal relationship and so I felt like I lost a friend. And so, on his behalf, I started to advocate and started to voice my opinion around that.

They deserve a second chance. And if you put them in a place where there's a lot of food, and you know, maybe a little bit of help from us, too, right. And a bear biologist that I talked to said, you could have given him a hard release after you drop them off, right? And kind of retrain them and get them to think that they can’t just come around, right. And there's, we have boundaries, so. I mean, I'm interested in that kind of a new approach. You know, we don't have all the answers, but we're going to look for the answers right. And together I think with the Grizzly Bear Foundation and our nations I really think that we can do something really positive and have our program funded and add credibility.

(NICHOLAS)

And it was interesting at this time, you know, we got the word out. And you know, I've worked in conservation for over 20 years and this is the first time I ever worked on a story that went International. 

(MIKE)

Yeah, that’s right.

(NICHOLAS)

During COVID lockdown. The Guardian picked it up. And it was, you know, trending as their number one story for a while and people were interested in the story of this grizzly bear. His second chance. 

(MIKE)

Yeah, yeah. Well, they're just like us. It'd be like giving our family member a second chance. Anyone you always give them because they’re family you know.  It's uh, that's the way we look at the bears. Right. It's a different paradigm. That's what people don't understand because they, we think in a different paradigm today, right. But our Indigenous ways are its own paradigm. Right? And it's reflected in our language. You know, it's different. It's out of respect. And like I said, you just have to look at our totem poles and you'll see who is important to us. 

<<grizzly bear song sung by Mike Willie plays>>

(NICHOLAS)

During one of the most impactful global events in recent history, a physically-distanced world saw a joint effort by First Nations, the Grizzly Bear Foundation and the provincial government to save Mali.

Here, giant beings root themselves deep into the Earth. 

Mighty firs, Sitka spruce and cedar trees are nourished by the backs of wild salmon, delivered beyond the rivers edge by bears and brought to the sky by eagles. 

Grizzly bears often eat the fattiest parts of salmon - the head, skin and roe - leaving the rest behind to nourish other wildlife and forest floors.

<<music>>

(NICHOLAS)

So when Mali was relocated, how close from here?

(MIKE)

Ah, Hoya sound is probably 30 nautical miles from Hanson. So maybe 20 from here. Yeah.

(NICHOLAS)

And so he was dropped off in a beautiful estuary. And then the guardians told us he woke up groggy and but he right away started eating grass and being a bear.

(MIKE)

Yeah this type of harvesting is learned like they don't do that in Smith Inlet. They don't turn over the rocks there so it's interesting. Yeah and then some of them are even sealing, like they're going after seals on the island just up close to Glendale. They swim over and you can see them just hiding and getting ready to pounce on the seal.

(NICHOLAS)

The clouds are really starting to break up here….

(MIKE)

Rainforest characteristics!

(NICHOLAS)

It’s interesting at this tide level, because you can see where they're flipping rocks. And then you can see the next level of the mussels. And then the rock weed.

(MIKE)

Yeah. That's right. So they'll switch to like the mussels. They go on the logging infrastructure over there. And they'll hang out there all day until the tide pushes them out right, but they just eat the mussels off the metal structure. 

This is a safe place for grizzlies like this, they come here to be safe.

<<sound of a gun shot>>

(NICHOLAS)

Ten days after Mali was relocated, we received a personal phone call from Environment Minister George Heyman.

The tone was sombre.  Mali had been shot to death, just 30 kilometres from where he was released. 

Mali, we will continue to fight for you. In solidarity, please join me in listening to Mike as he sings a bear song belonging to his brother Chief William Wasden.  

Bear witness.

<<grizzly bear song sung by Mike Willie plays>>

In true Mali behaviour, he had gone on an adventure and swam to another island. 

On arrival he came upon a resident and a barking dog.

(NICHOLAS)

But then, about a week later, I got a call from Minister Heyman. And it was really nice that he called personally but to tell us the sad news that Mali had been shot. 

(MIKE)

Yeah.

(NICHOLAS)

And I remember calling you and I just - I don’t know it took the air out of my lungs.

(MIKE)

..It was really upsetting because I, I had a feeling of failure, right. Like I feel…felt like we failed him. But also wanted to learn from that and take that as a lesson moving forward. 

And now we know what we need, right? to do right from the beginning when we drop off the bears, like, we need collars.

(NICHOLAS)

It's one of the hard things working in conservation. You know, we get to spend this time and see these wonderful animals and, you know, work to protect these beautiful places, but there's also sad stories that you hold with you. And, you know, years ago, I worked on a project and you know, we worked, everyone worked so hard to protect this beaver family, because they were adding biodiversity and creating habitat. And then someone didn't like the beaver and went along and killed the beaver. Everyone had worked so hard and it was so upsetting for part of the community. And I feel like that's what happened with Mali. I think we learned a lot. But those failures, like you said, they stick with you.

<<grizzly bear song sung by Mike Willie plays>>

(NICHOLAS)

The life and death of the beloved bear Mali.

Mali’s tragic story is echoed in the similar stories of brothers and sisters - Bear 71 and Bear 148.

Bear 71’s story was told in a 2012 film by Leanne Allison and Jeremy Mendes. “It’s hard to say where the wired world ends and the wild one begins,” says the actor who voices the bear. “They can start a revolution on a smartphone, but can’t remember to close the lid of a bear-proof garbage bin.”

Bear 148’s story was covered in a podcast by The Narwhal - an iconic female bear that was translocated and then shot by a hunter in British Columbia. 

The passing of Bear 71, Bear 148, Gatu, Mali, and so many more are symbols of human-bear encounters gone wrong. Unnecessary deaths that could have been prevented with more education and awareness. 

Over the past eight years, nearly 200 grizzly bears have been killed in conflict.  13 of those grizzlies were killed illegally in the last two years, and before the BCNDP government ended  the grizzly bear trophy hunt an average of over 300 grizzlies were killed per year.

Bear witness.

Mike Willie shared with me a personal story from his youth that served as a catalyst for how he responds to grizzlies, now sharing his world with these majestic animals.

(MIKE)

So there’s this great big mama grizzly walking in the village of Kingcome and my Auntie's on the phone and she's like “Oh my god there’s a great big grizzly!” And so I opened the door and holy cow, it was a huge grizzly, had silver on the back. 

So I put it down. 

And as that was, that's what changed me.

I went inside and just sang all the grizzly bear songs that I knew and said, I've never I'm never going to do that, again, get caught up in this hype of - being feared, you know, like, I want to change that. And you know, that changed my life and now I'm devoting my time to saving them and you know, just getting to know them. There absolutely is no reason to fear them. Right? 

And we have the tools like you - when you're in the trails, you just say “Yo” you know, that's that was the way that we were taught, and to let them know that you're there. And that's, that's what's going to save you.

We’re always advocating for protecting grizzlies. We're trying to change the mindsets, even within our own communities too.

<<grizzly bear song sung by Mike Willie plays>>

(NICHOLAS)

Mike refers to grizzly bears today as members of his family, re-framing his relationship with grizzlies many years ago.

 In 2015 Mike started Sea Wolf Adventures, an Indigenous-run tourism business, dedicating his life to educating others and advocating for grizzly bears.

(MIKE, DESTINATION BC VIDEO CLIP)

“I work at Sea Wolf Adventures.”

(NICHOLAS)

what got you into the grizzly bear viewing?

(MIKE)

When we first started we were actually just kayak shuttling. It was a water taxi business slash cultural. But we realized right away that, you know, we should actually get into real wildlife viewing, you know, bear viewing. And I knew someone was in Thompson bear viewing. And that's my traditional territory. Right. And where my chieftainship comes from too.

(NICHOLAS)

Right, you’re hereditary chief.

(MIKE)

Yeah, hereditary, one of the hereditary chiefs, seats or standings within my family is one of them is on me. And the other one is on my uncle Don, and there's one more that we need to put on someone yet. But uh yeah, so that's how I got into bear viewing. 

The business just grew, the idea grew, it was gonna be a service between Port McNeill and Kingcome - water taxi - and then the idea grew and eventually I got into tourism started going down that route and I got hooked up with Indigenous Tourism BC and they pointed me in a few directions and got some funding to get just to get a boat and we ordered a stabicraft which was a it's a nice New Zealand design boat and we took six passengers and our first year we had 26 passengers and the year after we had 296 passengers and the year after was 510. Yeah, it was really like uh, the word was getting out like what we were doing then.

(NICHOLAS)

And that's like a wildlife viewing and culture together 

(MIKE)

Yeah so they really like that and this is when we were going to Thompson too so the bear viewing is spectacular. Like you think this is nice when we're on the beach, it’s something else when they're in the river. And when you're walking into bear trails, and you run into them and you know, it feels like you have more of a personal experience with them. And so guests love that. And we'd stop off at one of our ancient village sites in the Birdwood Group but there's just like nothing but white beach because thousands of years of you know, harvesting clams and living there.

(NICHOLAS)

And so since then, how many years have you spent taking people out to learn and get to know them?

(MIKE)

Yeah, so we started in 2015 when we started the bears. So, five years now, which we’re quite young yet in the industry, yeah. And it was quite something too like, we were so shy. Just me and Sherry, my niece is really shy. We were so scared to even ask the other operators where the whales were we wouldn't get on the radio phone. [laughter] Yeah. But we've come a long way we've grown and people know Seawolf now. It's really kind of cool. And sometimes you have to educate people and it's tough. Yeah, I mean, people are stuck in their old ways, right? And, and, and so you do have to be blunt and say, You know what, when you see us on the water, you need to know that we're from here, you know, we're different. We come from this area, you know, our lands and waters and the stories that go with them. We employ our people for our communities.

(NICHOLAS)

Not too much impact on the bears. And that's the opportunity. So even when they leave this place, and then go back to New York or wherever they're from, then they'll feel a connection to nature, right? That they're like, Oh, this was a wilderness experience for me. But even when I'm in the city, I can feel that because I know I've touched that right and sometimes you need to get back I feel I need to get back to the wild to get that reconnection.

(MIKE)

Yeah, everybody needs to, right, there’s that pull to nature. Something about the greenery and the oxygen, you know, and the energy that you feel when you're in the forest.

(NICHOLAS)

Wanna go look at these two? This mom and cub?

(MIKE)

Sure...There's another one. Yeah, that's a big one.

(NICHOLAS)

It's our - we’ve seen five grizzlies today? 

(MIKE)

So that - this is six, isn't it?

(NICHOLAS)

Oh right, yeah, six grizzlies today. This inlet doesn't disappoint.

(MIKE)

Yeah, sometimes we see like 13 or 15. In one day, that's a good day. Right. But it's I don't like to promote that part of it like, because sometimes we just see, sometimes we only see one. Right. And that's all we have to work with that for that day. And it takes a lot of pressure off. Oh, is that a mum and cub?

(NICHOLAS)

Oh, look at that - cub of the year. You could watch that all day.

And so, the cycle of life begins again. Before Mali died, he was on a journey to find his home range. More bears will follow in his footsteps and learn to survive on their own.

In the first year of a bear's life, they are known as - cubs-of-the-year. In the second or third year of their life, just like Mali,  cubs-of-the-year will embark on a journey from their birthplace to where they reproduce. This is called “natal dispersal”. 

According to research completed by the B.C. government, understanding the dispersal behaviour of grizzly bears is essential for developing conservation strategies and well-managed forest land. Their results suggest that grizzly bear habitat must be wide enough for male grizzly bears to live in with little risk of being killed.

We've been doing this really interesting work together to bring nations from across BC and the Yukon together to talk about indigenous management of wildlife. 

(MIKE)

Yeah, coexisting, you know, starts from the relationships that we've had with them and with the respect that we've had for them for centuries, right for thousands of years and and so that was part of the change that I wanted to make was to get, you know, the COS and the Ministry Environment to to acknowledge and take into account our traditional values and principles, right that help us base decisions within our territories. And so that's that's the route that we're going in through the work with the Grizzly Bear Foundation and indigenous roundtable gave us that platform to to meet with Minister Heyman now, that was a really good meeting…

(NICHOLAS)

We're lucky really to have a government right now that ended the trophy hunting and killing of grizzly bears and is open really to talking about more indigenous management of wildlife and they're trying but really, you know, yourself and Chief Sumner and, and others are leading.

<< National Observer news clips about aquaculture>>

For decades, First Nations in the Broughton Archipelago have fought for the protection of coastal ecosystems and wild Pacific salmon - a major food source feeding grizzly bears.

<<singing at a fish farm occupation, recorded by Emilee Gilpin>>

That is the sound of one of many fish farm occupations in the Broughton Archipelago, recorded by Emilee Gilpin for the National Observer.

“We now understand that these fish farms represent a threat to every river system on the coast,” says Kwikwasut'inuxw Haxwa'mis Chief Bob Chamberlin.

As we witness extinctions and catastrophic declines in wild salmon stocks, Nations are fighting for the transition of BC’s marine-based open-net fish farms -- to closed land-based containment systems. 

<< National Observer news clips about aquaculture>>

“They move their tactics from the land to the ocean. From time immemorial, we have lived on the ocean,” says hereditary Chief Ernest Alfred from the 'Namgis Nation.

“We have our children and our future children to think about,” says Karissa Glendale, fish farm occupier Namgis Nation.

“We have been overwhelmed now by this idea - the econimic idea - that the economy is everything,” says Chief Ernest Alfred.

(NICHOLAS)

In 2018 a land-mark decision was made that brought together the Kwikwasut'inuxw Haxwa'mis, 'Namgis and Mamalilikulla First Nations and three provincial ministers to share decision-making power about the future of fish farm tenures and salmon aquaculture in B.C.'s Broughton Archipelago.

Today, these three Nations continue to work together to further conversations with the provincial government, hopefully ensuring grizzly bear encounters like Mali’s have a positive outcome for wildlife and the bear-viewing industry. 

So why don't you tell me a little bit about that, like what the three nations were that came together and how this is unique.

(MIKE)

Well, I knew that we could work together because we've already demonstrated working together within the salmon farming issue - Namgis, Mamalilikulla, and Kwikwasut'inuxw.

The efforts from these three nations are going to benefit the grizzlies when the salmon come back. And so that's, that's a part of this, you know, this grizzly bear movement is connected to that, right. And I want people to know that the efforts that our nations put forward is going to benefit grizzly bears and orcas and, and our people, and it'll also benefit the tourism industry on the North Island and the Broughton Archipelago.

(NICHOLAS)

I think that's, you know, the thing of the story of Mali that even though it ended badly for Mali, and so sad for us, but what we learned and what we're going to work toward changing will be in his name, and then, you know, it helped build a relationship between you and me. And these three nations to work together and Grizzly Bear management. 

(MIKE)

Yeah, definitely. And to not know, and not be a part of the investigation was really upsetting for me too. And I felt like that was a breach of what we were discussing in the collaborative approach between the COs and the First Nations. So that we need to work on too, make sure that that's the next time that it happens that we're involved right from the get go. We have a right to know you know, through our laws within our territories, we have a right to know. So.

(NICHOLAS)

In recent years the Grizzly Bear Foundation has supported these efforts, hosting an Indigenous Roundtables on Grizzly Bear Conservation and Bear-Viewing Ecotourism, bringing together First Nations and Indigenous ecotourism companies from across BC and the Yukon to discuss how we can move forward together.

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“So Mali is going to be the blueprint. A blueprint to the process moving forward collaboratively with the government,” says Mike.

(MIKE)

It definitely takes commitment and time and effort. And, and the conviction, I guess to, to make change and to say, hey, you know, this is our territory, you know, we have a right to manage the wildlife within our territories. And so Chief Sumner spoke really well on that. And I really respect him for that, you know, we do have a right to govern within our own territories. And that's, that's where we're coming from, you know, it's  coming from respect, right, that's the foundation of this whole movement is the respect between us and the grizzlies.

(NICHOLAS)

Mali’s story charts a positive path forward. 

BC’s Minister of Environment and Climate Change Strategy, George Heyman, praised the efforts of all involved, calling it “a demonstration of the power of partnership and the desire for reconciliation.” 

(MIKE)

We have at least 14,000 years of history of having these relationships with the grizzlies and wildlife in general. It's not hard to see where our culture is based, what our culture is based on you have to look at our totem poles and all of the art and it's all wildlife.

(NICHOLAS)

A new journey begins as groundwork is laid for a new, Indigenous-led approach to grizzly-bear management in the province. 

(MIKE)

My journey, I like healing you know healing the troubles of the past and also revitalizing language is another journey that I love.

(NICHOLAS)

It's really nice to spend time with you, Mike. We've only talked over the phone. We've seen each other in meetings and stuff, but to be out here in your traditional territory, and thanks for doing this..

(MIKE)

Nice having you guys. Really

(NICHOLAS)

Appreciate it. 

(MIKE)

Yeah, me too. 

(NICHOLAS)

Thanks for being part of GrizzCast. 

(MIKE)

All right.

(NICHOLAS)

Thank you for listening to Episode 3... You can find our donation page, behind the scenes photos and videos and grizzly bear resources on our website at grizzcast.grizzlybearfoundation.com. 

From the Grizzly Bear Foundation, this is GrizzCast.

GrizzCast is hosted by the Grizzly Bear Foundation - a charitable organization solely dedicated to the welfare of the grizzly bear. 

Share and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify… or wherever you find your podcasts.

I’m Nicholas Scapillati, the Executive Producer and your host.

This episode was written and edited by our Producer, Lindsay Marie Stewart. 

Our Story Producer is Leia Hutchings. 

Interviews were recorded on location in Bear Cave Mountain by Kas Shield.

ALO composed our theme music.

Original solo acoustic guitar music is by Jon den Boer.

Intro music is “What Remains” by Abilene, 100% clearance through Musicbed.

GrizzCast’s original album art is by Marie Wyatt, with graphic design by Lindsay Marie Stewart. 

This episode was sponsored by the CBVA. Learn more here.